You wanted to say...:

Pandionna - 2003-04-07 00:02:52
How revolting! I'd stay caked in filth, thanks.
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Lori - 2003-04-07 00:04:32
aye Pandionna..so would I! I just cannot believe that. It has made me so angry..the deception and the lengths they will go to for it.
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Windy - 2003-04-07 01:27:39
I am a Christian, and I take extreme offense to his actions! That is completely outrageous, and (please pardon my language) totally fucked up!
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Lori - 2003-04-07 01:30:15
yeah Windy...that is fucked up. Since I am a Buddhist, I am not up on what is going on in the christian community anymore..so Windy..what in the world is going on? Why are some christians acting like this? Is this really going to draw people to christianity? or send them scurrying off?
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Windy - 2003-04-07 02:16:47
This is abhorrent behavior. No, I don't think it will bring people to Christianity; I think it will do just the opposite. Christians have acted like this throughout history, which is shameful. I myself am a former Catholic turned nondenominational Christian. It is things like this, this attitude of coercion, that turned me away from the Catholic church, and church in general. I do not attend church because I view my religion as private, between myself and God. I do not need a middleman. I view the Bible with some skepticism, because it was written by man's hand, not God's. I do not understand nor condone this behavior, and it is entirely un-Christian, but very Church-like. Sad.
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Sarah - 2003-04-07 07:36:52
That sure is STUPID! They can't be humans.
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Sarah - 2003-04-07 07:39:00
That sure is STUPID! They can't be humans.
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trixxx - 2003-04-07 09:45:35
its utterly appalling but windy's right though, the history of missionary christianity is the history of forced/coerced conversion and assimilation, whether of jews and muslims in reconquista spain, or first nations and african people between 1492 and 2003. the church has filled its pews and coffers through colonization, and on some level i think that's what this war is about, the reinvention of the u.s. as an openly imperialist, and fundamentalist, state.
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Windy - 2003-04-08 00:14:49
It's still bugging me, has been all day. The fact that he's Southern Baptist explains some of his attitude. No offense to any Baptists, but c'mon, boycotting Disney because it child companies air shows about gays? How bigoted is that? They do tend to be more "aggressive", as Mr. Llano himself put it. What I'd like to know is, if this man is from Houston, how did he come to "own" this oasis in Iraq?
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Lori - 2003-04-08 00:20:38
Windy, in every war, there are many chaplains, preachers, etc. assigned to bases. These are usually men who have some basic training in the military. So I assume he enlisted to serve as a "chaplain".
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Joy - 2003-04-08 01:21:34
Actually, it's a thing in the Southern Baptist Convention, or at least some churches within it, that they have this need to baptise everything that moves. Some churches in the Convention have actual attendance of like 100 people, have a baptism rate of like 600-1000 in a year. They take great pride in that fact. I attend a SBC church, though, that is the exact opposite. The ministry staff is for real, and the church is not about fronts. There's no backbiting, because the head Pastor squashes it when he sees it, and the place is the first time in many years that I have felt at home in a church. I was Pagan for almost a decade, and so I've seen both sides of the fence, as it were. This guy, though. . .Sick. Just sick.
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hey - 2003-04-08 01:34:51
how very awful. your banner is v. capitivating if not a bit incendiary.
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Windy - 2003-04-08 01:52:08
Lori, I understand why he's out there, I just don't understand how he can lay claim to this land, and the pool of water. How does he own it?
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Lori - 2003-04-08 02:08:06
Windy, apparently the Defense Department decided that the "chaplains" needed baptismals in case any of the men wanted to be baptised and this guy was given a baptismal. That is about the only thing that would make sense to me. Like you, it just doesn't make sense that in order for our troops to get a bath, they have to subject themselves to coercion and be "baptised" in order to get clean.
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Tahm the Lame - 2003-04-08 08:56:25
I don't know, I think it's kind of funny myself. After all, there's nothing saying that the men who use the water have to actually be Christian. They could just say that they want to be baptised and all they get out of it is the bath. And you know what? I think that's fine. I see it as more of a ministering opportunity, not necessarily forcing people to Christ. They have to listen to it, yeah, but they don't have to do anything about it. Once it's done, they can just go back to their tents and forget all about it if they really want. Besides, it's pretty good business on the part of the preacher man. Simple laws of supply and demand and all that. He's using what he's got to do his job. Oh, and by the way: I'm a Christian, too. And while I don't think his actions are the best possible, I'm going to go ahead and give him props for at least being creative instead of handing out stupd pamphlets on street corners. (I also really like your layout but it didn't quite fit with the rant above, so we'll just put it down here...)
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Windy - 2003-04-08 21:18:16
Funny? It sickens me, and so does your flippant attitude about it. This is exactly the kind of thing that turns people away from the Church, not brings them to it. And let me get this straight: are you actually advocating that people go through the Sacrament of baptism under false pretenses, to get a drink or a bath? As a Christian, you think it is okay to lie to God, to say "I believe in you Lord and I accept you fully into my life," and not mean it? How is that okay? And are you advocating that this chaplain, a man of the cloth and supposedly a man of God, profane the sacred baptismal rite by trading it for use of the water? You think it's okay to sell a Sacrament? Should they be hoarding bread, and only giving it to those who will go through the Communion? When Jesus fed the people on the mountain, did he force them to become baptised first? No. So just how Christ-like are this man's actions, a man who is representing the Church, and therefore God and Jesus? Not even close. As for needing a baptismal, he could just do the same thing I've seen on the newscasts: dig a hole the size of a bathtub, line it with a tarp, and fill it with water. What I still don't understand is how this man has any right to Iraqi land or water. Why does he have the right to control it? Shouldn't it belong to the Iraqi people, not some sacreligeous, hypocritcal jerk from Texas? People have yet to be able to answer that question for me. No one else seems to understand it either. I'd really like to know.
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Alaminore - 2003-04-09 20:02:39
Hmm... it almost sounds like... the Crusades! Not the best time for the Christian faith... but I think many Christians today would find this underhanded. I mean... realistically, if he wanted people to convert, wouldn't it be easier to give the water kindly, graciously, with no dues? Wouldn't that reflect better on Christians than bribbery? Hmm.
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pixxie - 2003-04-09 21:42:47
As a christian.. I agree that this is a very unchristian agenda.. however I can understand the motivation. I think that if he had opened up his pool and OFFERED baptism it could have been more effective. Actions like this are what gives the followers of Christ a bad reputation.. as well as Christ himself
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Beth - 2003-04-10 04:04:41
People in power always try to take advantage of people. This guy is obviously not a true Christian. It's depressing.. truely depressing.
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Lori - 2003-04-10 09:23:20
Pixxie...personally, I think if he had opened his baptismal for the soldiers to *bathe* in, he may have gotten more *real* conversions because the soldiers would have witnessed a true act of christ-like kindness. Or, is it quantity not quality that christians seek? I ask this sincerely, since I am not christian. I guess I will just never understand the christian motivation. I have studied Jesus' teachings in depth and I never once read that he used deception, coersion, or even bribe tactics to get followers. He just taught, people listened, and then followed him to learn more. This is much the same as what happened with Buddha which is why I can understand the christ-like nature when I see or do not see it as it is much like the Buddha-like nature.
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Lori - 2003-04-10 09:33:08
Beth, I agree. And this is what scares me about the Middle East. Now that the USA has toppled Saddam in Baghdad, many of the religious right evangelists are awaiting the day they can send missionaries into Iraq. Do they not realize that could cause an all out holy war? If those missionaries act in any way like this one chaplain in Iraq is acting now, the Muslim world will start screaming that the whole war to free the Iraqis was really a deceptive move to christianize the Middle East.
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josh - 2003-04-10 17:09:17
My tolerance for today's Christians ran out long ago. But I'm still Christian. I love Jesus. He would not be happy with His peeps today though. No sir. He'd be one unhappy Homie G.
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Lori - 2003-04-10 17:39:56
Josh - I had a discussion with my husband on this subject earlier; he too is christian. Although he said this didn't surprise him, especially since this is a Baptist minister, he expressed his concern about how this will reflect on *all* christians here in America. This could potentially backfire on christianity.
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Windy - 2003-04-10 21:25:38
I'm glad that more people find this deplorable than find it acceptable, at least from the responses I've read.
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Marie - 2003-04-12 19:57:50
I don't buy that story. Notice how everyone that replied believed it without question. A true minister wouldn't want someone to be baptized unless they truly wanted it for themselves. This story is unlikely.
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Lori - 2003-04-13 14:44:44
Why is it unlikely? Many christian sects have coerced to gain "members" before now, why wouldn't this story be just as likely? But you are right, a *true* minister wouldn't do this. Guess this means that idiot in Iraq isn't a true one, huh?
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so tell me...:

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Ahhhh...thanks, I needed that!

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